Valve to Offer Refund For Every Sold Copy of From Dust? [UPDATED]
By Karl D - Thu Aug 18, 5:15 am
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Ubisoft’s God game From Dust has been available for less than 24 hours but its purchasers are already being refunded by online distribution giant Steam after a breach of terms by Ubisoft.
The publisher stated that there would be no DRM with the game other than a one-time-activation. However this seems to have turned out to be a big fat lie as the inclusion of metapoint service Uplay demands DRM. Meaning the user would always have to be connected to the internet to log in to Ubisoft’s and play the game
If you purchased the game through Steam, you can request a refund by contacting support here and state your unhappiness with the forced DRM added by Ubisoft. It can take a while for a reply so please be patient.
EDIT: Alternatively, you can contact Ubisoft support here if your initial claim is denied. [Via Ubisoft Support Boards]
If you contact the retailer – or if that’s not an option, Ubisoft Support they can advise you further on the next stages you need to go through if you wish to pursue a refund.
What’s your take on DRM? Is it a suitable countermeasure to videogame piracy or should companies look for other ways of dealing with it which won’t hurt the paying customers. Let us know in the comment section below.
EDIT- It seems that in light of the massive influx of tickets, Steam Support have been turning down refund requests left and right for MANY users. Here’s a suggestion from someone who successfully received their refund to increase the likelihood that you’ll receive your $15/dignity back. [via Rock, Paper, Shotgun]
We are dealing with civil law so it will be different in everyone’s circumstances and there are no absolutes. For instance I used the sale of goods act (uk), but equally you could use consumer protection regulations or the consumer credit act, there are any number of eu laws which are relevant. I don’t doubt a clever enough lawyer could use something really obscue. They are not required by law to give any one any money back – civil law is all about disputes. If you feel strongly that you should be entitled to it back, make your case firmly, with no hint of stroppiness and quote the relavent law to why you feel you deserve your money back. If I wad to tell you what I did, they would get a thousand identical requests and actually use the number of identical requests against you.
So you may feel you are entitled to your money back because the product was mis-sold. You need to check first that it was (here’s a heads up, it wasn’t, so don’t try to follow this one, you’ll get exactly nowhere). First you need to find the law which deals with this – contract law, specifically misrepresentation. You will spend as long as you need before you understand it completely.
Write your email next, save it and read it. Work out how they would get out of it (in this case, it’s very clear in steams T&C that a third party may require this DRM, which is why you’ll get nowhere) and seal up the cracks.
Next you need to know where to send it. There are many people who can cancel your key, I wouldn’t bother with steam, they won’t read your email for a couple of weeks and likely ignore it until you’ve sent two or three.
So that leavesUbisoft and Ubisoft Montpellier. If you’re canny, you’ll manage to avoid customer service. I won’t be publishing anyones personal email addresses, suffice to say if you get out of your chair and use the phone, you’ll easily find the right one.
Send, sit back and await a responce. If you’ve done everything well, enjoy that £11 refund you worked for 3 hours to get – maybe more if you have to do lots of complicated research.
Personally I did it to make a point.
EDIT: And for goodness sake, back up your statements with facts, don’t just write “The laws of misrepresentation say that this product was poorly described”, write:
“According to the misrepresentation act of 1967 and backed up by the 1986 case of Gordon v Selico (link here), when an UBIsoft employee negligently posted false information on the date of xx/yy/zz at http:\whateveritwas.com, I took that to be a factual statement concerning the game and was one of the deciding factors as to my purchase of the game.”
UPDATE (08/24/2011)- It seems armchair activism is taking effect. Valve has reportedly sent the following emails out to people who have received denied refund tickets:
“Ubisoft has just announced that they are working on a patch that will eliminate the need for any online authentication for From Dust. The patch will release in approximately two weeks.
If you don’t want to wait for the patch or if you haven’t played the game, per Ubisoft’s request, we will issue refunds for this title.
If you would still like your purchase of From Dust refunded, please reply to this ticket.”
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Unfortunately, this is just another example of how DRM only hurts legitimate customers.
This is total bullshit…Ubisoft always spreads shits about an patch being created but never will it be so.Ubisoft is a big shit scam-and-run Company….My suggestion:-Never ever again buy Ubisoft games!!!
this game is on the top of the piracy list simply because of the DRM. They patched the DRM out, but it was too late. All of my buddies already pirated it because of the DRM. Just from my end, 7 sales lost due to DRM. Why do they keep putting this crap in games? Seriously, the DRM is cracked literally minutes after a game is released, or at the most, in a week. and the number of people pirating games due to DRM is increasing. When are they going to realize, that DRM DECREASES sales?!! NOBODY WANT'S TO BUY A GAME THAT HAS RESTRICTIONS DUE TO DRM! IT'S BETTER PIRATE IT, AND BE ABLE TO PLAY IT WHERE YOU WANT, WHEN YOU WANT, ON WHAT MACHINE YOU WANT!!! MORONS!!!!! QUIT USING DRM, AND GET PAID MORE!!! YOU HAVE TO PAY TO IMPLEMENT THE DRM = YOU LOSE MONEY, THEN YOU LOSE SALES = YOU LOSE MONEY, THEN YOU LOSE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE OF DRM = YOU LOSE MONEY. WHAT PART DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??!!!!
Also…
I think this is the first false article I've read where, a week later, it became real news a week later.
Kudos in starting something.
1) Every laptop has ethernet ports (macbook air excluded)
2) Here and almost everywhere internet is available in travel services
3) If you don't have it only makes you a minority thus means the problems is very located and small
4) Playing in planes, buses or trains would only ruin the game experience, don't do it
5) Look into your mailbox, you received a letter. See you soon in court!
Seriously be carefull, if DRM is not working what do you think they will do? Trace the pirates and send them bills. Read the news, secret US antipiracy angency has been created to located said pirates.
Check Witcher 2, no DRM, but intensive legal pursuit.
Which is better?
to the idiots trolling "oh so it only needs internet once per launch blahblahblah"
sucks if you want to play it on a plane, or on a laptop on a train or somewhere like that. no way i can be arsed plugging in my phone to tether the 3g connection for the shitty DRM to work.
i saw this on consoles and liked it, and wanted to play it on the way to work on my netbook. oh well, the cracked version will work so no great loss.
1) WiFI is offered in flights
2) WiFi is offered on trains
3) No one is stopping you to play on your laptop
4) Netbooks are low-performance machine not designed to play games
Anything else?
1. Only domestic. At least where I live, even then it's only if you pay extra. (I'm an Australian)
2. Not where I live. Not at all. (Again, Australia.)
3. Yes they are, because I don't have internet access everywhere. Mobile internet over here is VERY expensive. It's not like in the US where you can get unlimited 3G data access on your phone/laptop for cheap.
4. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. However how powerful his laptop is has no bearing on the DRM and how stupid it is. He probably just meant laptop anyway. In my case at least I have a powerful laptop that can handle the game, and I want to be able to play my games when away from home.
I will certainly not be giving any of my hard earned cash up just so I can be treated like a criminal. I'd rather actually BE a criminal, pirate the game, at least then I don't have to put up with the crappy treatment.
Honestly, as far as I am concerned, the DRM isn't a particularly big deal.
If your MAJOR concern is 'oh god what if Ubi stops supporting it for XYZ/goes bankrupt/is evil', then …generally devs are pretty nice about their games, and they might be cajoled into taking the DRM off it. Alternatively you could just download the crack if it's that big a deal to you?
If your MAJOR concern is 'oh god it needs me to be on the INTERNET?' then either
1) You have an astoundingly amazing laptop, in which case you're stupidly rich and don't need that $15 bucks back.
2) You genuinely have internet problems (see solution above!)
3) You just want to whine to people about your martyrdom (probably on the internet!)
I'm not defending what Ubi did with From Dust here; I'm personally appalled at their conduct, but my key issue here is not 'oh god they lied about the DRM', the key issue for me is the astoundingly poor quality of their port. I have a (always-connected desktop, so you see why DRM is not a big issue) computer well over the recommended requirements for this game, and yet the graphics are not up to par, and there are minimal (read: pretty much no) options to tweak that. Which is fine, I can live with that, you can have fun without things looking nice, but then the controls are finnicky to the point that I found the game functionally unplayable.
I'm hoping that there's a major patch soon that renders the game actually playable; I'm doubtful about that ever happening, but I hold out hope, just like I hope that people will stop virulently espousing piracy as the most viable solution to your game NOT BEING CONVENIENT and start caring about the slightly more pressing matter of your game NOT BEING FUN.
It is well said, more attention should be spent on the game itself.
The thing is pirates are resourceful, just because they see the game has a DRM wont make them spend 15 bucks, I should know I torrented this game ( games are too expensive now days, not this one but if only they invented a Netflix instant stream equivalent for video game). The DRM took me and the rest of us pirates all of 2 minutes, it plays fine for me and ubisoft still pissed off their actual customers ps.. I wish I could afford games but I just can't, I will occasionally purchase an indie game, let's face it big game companies make up for pirates with dlc and cheap plastic collectors items worth 40$ extra
Yeah lets put a cape on the pirates.
I mean they are the superheroes of our time, right?
Saving the world against Evil companies that distribute games for children… 😐
Nothing is free in this world, that includes games. And they are not that expensive… Lose the booze for a day and play for a month 😉
Thanks for letting me know you distributed stolen goods and also that you are one of "hacker" that created it. That just makes you a criminal.
I really don't think that one or two pirate could be more resourceful than a full team on engineers.
You hacked BULLSHIT. Let me guess, no encryption, no code obfuscation, no multitude of checks or false positives and no embeded virtual machines. (Acctually i'm not guessing, I looked for myself 😉 ) Just a simple online check? And you think that is their DRM? You are pathetic.
P.S.
About the instant stream, wow, get out of the basement and clean your keyboard! Onlive people?
"I don’t know about you, but i’ve seen worse in life"
Of course there's shitty stuff that happens that is more relatable to human nature than a game coming with DRM that doesn't benefit the buyer.
My ISP has supplied me with a shitty router. I can't connect my laptop/Ipod/anything through wireless. That is my ISP's fault, I'm trying to get it sorted, but due to company arrogance they won't admit a problem. I would buy based on being able to play a game offline, if I so needed. Now there's two companies that haven't given me what I expected!
I will state myself on this since it seems the trend here
" You need to connect to see your uplay stats on the game. Once it is launch : no connection is needed."
Soooo, there is no ethernet port on that laptop?
Plug it in, plug it out : go play in your room 😉
It's terrible, I agree, that you received a shitty router…
But most people do not have router problems nor to they actually need wireless to have internet on their PC . You know those blue cables?? They work even better than wireless.
Anyway, most people play on PC since gaming laptops are fucking expensive…
I assume you bought the game on steam since you are on this page and that this game seems mainly released on digital stores or services. So you connect, download the game and then there is none to be found when you need to log on? And just seconds after your on the net ranting about it! Now to me that seems weird.
About that "clean" pirate version in other posts in this thread… I don't know about you but I don't thrust that fatty russian that created the shitty code you used to steal or "patch".
Do you have a single idea what he included? I don't think so.
He is under no laws. he works in his basement with his cheetos and cigarette butt covered keyboard but still you thrust him more then any corporation that have intensive legal departments?
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/fat-f…
I'm starting to have the feeling that this hating is fuelled by ignorance and bad faith…
Again, you can play the game without internet. You need to connect to see your uplay stats on the game. Once it is launch : no connection is needed.
I don't know about you, but i've seen worse in life
"Don’t like DRM? Then don’t buy those games with it included."
That's fair enough, but a little warning beforehand wouldn't go amiss, rather than a categorical statement to "clear up confusion" turning out to be wrong.
Also have to say I love the really classy comments by people where in this 'affront' (more likely a cock up by one department) somehow qualifies as an entitlement to pirate everything that Ubisoft (and bizarrely EA…) produce from here on in.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/2/19/
Love games? Buy them, and support game developers. Don't like DRM? Then don't buy those games with it included. It's not like there's a lack of titles out there to play.
unbelieveble that they try to gloss over their lie by deleting theirs messages in the forum. it shows the character of this company and i will beware of buying more games from ubisoft in the future.
I actually quite like it, and dont mind the shit that came with it. It doesnt require me to do anything more than start the game and log in. I can live with that. And the game is good, and I havent got choppy fps nor frame-skipping.
Bottom line, I wont be requesting anything back.
"Some people don’t have the fastest or the most stable internet not everyone’s in your position pal."
1) You having shitty internet is not the developers fault. Find a better ISP.
2) The game requires a connection when you launch, that is all. After that you can do what you wish, as long as you're still in game it will run.
infrom just for you.
from dust has been hacked and posted online 48 hours before the sale official.
How? no idea, but I check and I find many Efectis ddl link to border dust.
but an honest man I am, I passienté and I buy …. But because of the DMR I have a message that appears "connection lost" if the gas Monday Ubisoft did not give a solution very promptly I claim a refund from dust. j'yrais and see the side of the internet that cite sertain know I finally play.
Not everyone's internet is the same who do you think you are?
Some people don't have the fastest or the most stable internet not everyone's in your position pal.
Did you checked how much bandwidth it took you to log in?
My guess is no…
It must of cost several bytes. damn, its a good thing a can download several million bytes because that is costly.
Well, let's just hope that the Ubi servers don't crash then. Seriously, how does this 'protection' help anyone? It's also very invasive when there is no need for it.
It was advertised by Ubi as needing only a one-time verification. The fact they went to great lengths to make this clear to game sites, and in turn potential customers, is shameless.
DRM is crap. They know it, that's why they told people it wouldn't be needed for more than a one-time verification.
1) Valve never offered a refund in any way shape of form whatsoever, and for the article writer to claim that they did is dis-ingenious. I guess page hits are more important that honesty.
2) What Elsa said. Frankly this whole DRM thing has been blown way out of proportion beyond belief. Back when AC2 shipped with it I was raging like the rest, but when it hit the bargain bins I bought it and had absolutely no issues with it whatsoever. Sure I wasn't mountain climbing in the Andes or anything at the time, but if I was, playing AC2 would be the last thing on my mind. The whole 'OMFG no internets!!!' thing is a joke, even more so given those raging about it seem to practically live on the web.
"I've never had a bad experience with DRM or Ubisoft, therefore such bad exoperiences do not exist and I shall mock you for thinking they do!"
This message was brought to you by Fantasy to Reality translation services. A persistent net connection needed to use this service.
Not all people bought it because of that statement but, had game sites got wind of this earlier then bad PR would have equaled less sales. There are a lot of people who deteste DRM. Who really benefits? Not the people who have fairly purchased this.
The game was cracked on day one, so now the people who have paid can't play it offline, while people who have pirated it can. How does that make sense? You can't stop people cracking your games if they are determined enough to do so, so they have just brought about distrust from their user-base and people watching in on the mess.
It's interesting when people condemn pirates, but think it's perfectly fine for companies to sell something in a fraudulent way, and make thousands of pounds/dollars,then refuse refunds for goods that were sold based on lies. Both should be condemned if you were really against theft.
It seems that you're in support of making money by lying and taking peoples earnings away from them, when they may well not have bought it had they known. I'm glad I'm stuck in my own little world in that case.
Dude, they sells games not DRMs.
They promised a great game and they delivered. If you would of told me that we could not manupulate elements like they said, now that would be lying to get money and THAT would be fraud.
And, just for info, I can play offline aswell, i connect to see my uplay stats but then not internet connection is required to play. Just like they told us.
If you look at Steams page on Dust this is what you see :
HIGH SPEED INTERNET ACCESS AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT ARE REQUIRED TO ACCESS THIS VIDEO GAME AND ONLINE FEATURES AND TO PLAY ONLINE. YOU MUST BE AT LEAST 13 TO CREATE A UBISOFT ACCOUNT WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT.
http://i17.tinypic.com/85xjuds.gif
So dont tell me they told a big fat lie on what the game is… Its was just mis-understood by alarmist assholes.
I have bought the game and i'm glad to have the online features it is offering.
And dude : Welcome to new the age of technology!
Everyone is online and everything is online :
WoW
Eve
Rift
Diablo 3
Starcraft 2
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Banks
Phones
Hell i have 3g on my kindle just to buy books
…
If you do not have internet on your PC you have been living in a cave eating roots and insects all your life.
"Do you get a free car when it does not accelerate like you want? NO, that’s how it is."
What?
If you were told that the car would work in a certain way, then when you buy it, you get a car that doesn't work unless you have GPS on all the time, then that's borderline fraud.
Many people wouldn't have bought it if they'd known this. Lots of people can have their internet connections drop out at a moments notice. Then you have something that you were told would work, stop working.
It may only be about $15, but they've made thousands of pre-order sales, based on false information. They've gained money through misrepresentation.
Really?
You guys are stuck in your own world. It is just amazing!
The people who bougth the game did not buy it because it had no DRM.
They wanted to have FUN!
I don't care what you say, you will NOT convince me that they ALL bought it because Ubisoft made that statement. You guys just keep pumping up your arguments to make it feel critical.
I don`t get it. You bougth the game online on steam, but it is impossible for you to have internet when you start the game? BULLSHIT!
And you all come online to rant on tweets and forums how much your life has been a living hell because you need internet to play. Do you know how much that is controversial?
You know what. You guys have been ruining me social life experience with all this non-sense flooding tweets, forums and news.
I'm so tired of hearing about it.
"You know what. You guys have been ruining me social life experience with all this non-sense flooding tweets, forums and news.
I’m so tired of hearing about it."
Oh, boo-hoo. You sound as if you're in the middle of a childish tantrum, not to mention moronic if you truly cannot comprehend why so many are pissed at this latest "fuck you" given by Ubisoft. If you're so "tired of hearing about it" then don't read it. As if anyone actually cares what you're tired of.
@Pathogen, its seems the point of the whole paragraph eluded you.
That's ashame…
I can assure you nobody cares about what you say either 😉
You know what? Your just a buch of kids that are scared to pay for what they play. Piracy is not a given right : its just illegal.
Do you get a free car when it does not accelerate like you want? NO, that's how it is.
Don't hide behind your endless rants of : I cant play because i need internet. OMG life is hard 🙁
The fact is : You ALL have internet, hotels HAVE internet, grandma's HAVE internet, OMG travel buses HAVE internet. Hell you can even tether internet from your phone if you are in the wilds in your favorite hideout. Bu why would you even want to play there anyway?
JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PLAY!
Saying that a car goes at 100km/h then to turn out it only goes half that isnt what you paid for.
If have you done elementary maths Speed and Acceleration are two different things.
The first would be a major inconveniance an the other is Minor.
Having internet to load a game is pretty much minor when you are always online.
Again, a pumped up false argument so you can sleep at night when you in fact a thief 😉
I am actually going to pirate this game because of Ubisoft. I do not want to support them.
I was about to buy this game from steam but the moment I saw that it uses drm I decided that I won't but it. I will NEVER buy ANY game with DRM, i will download it cracked from internet. Don't get me wrong, I have bought hundred of games through out my gaming years but I will never accept this ridiculous DRM thing. It's my right to play whenever I want a game that I have bought and of course not needing internet access.
Fuck you Ubisoft, you motherfucking piece of shit. I hope enraged gamers like me will form a mob, and force you to explain your wicked doings, or give us a refund, plus extra money for wasting our time.
"is has been"
Got it. Thanks. How embarrassing…
Fucking Ubisoft
I took a look at their privacy policy and here is an exert from it " Additionally, we may also collect other types of non-personal information (known as demographic information) such as your age or date of birth, gender, country and zip code of residence, recent game purchases, and game ownership and preferences."
They also include that the information can be associated with your account. Of course in the privacy policy they also include "This Privacy Policy applies only to personal information collected on the websites where this Privacy Policy is posted, and does not apply to any other information collected by Ubisoft through any other means."
So how that reads to me is that they can collect additional information about you as they only give examples, but don't define what they limit the collection of data to. Also this reads to me that the privacy policy doesn't even apply to the game! So what does that mean? I have no clue. If anyone is curious as to where I viewed this policy form, I installed the game and it popped up when going to create an account and sign on. Since their software requires an internet connection to play and they have a perfect back door into your computer. If they wanted to keep an eye on what you do, such when you buy games from their competition. Now again, do I think they are doing this? Probably not. Does it sound like they can? They probably can especially since they included a patcher. So if they don't do it now they can implement it easy enough later on.
And yes I know this may sound like a crazy idea to a lot of you out there. However keep in mind the people making these decisions are humans and there are humans that would be prone to actions like this. And if you haven't heard of company executives doing anything illegal or immoral before I would be amazed.
Yeah I got the exact same reply Im starting to wonder if they just copy paste it not matter what.
I was actually looking forward to purchasing this game this weekend. but now that i know theres this crappy drm involved, ill go pirate instead. same reason ive stopped purchasing capcom games as well.
I would love to know the original source of this post and the content of the information regarding this, reason being is i own the game on steam and went to the forums there was a thread discussing this topic and guess what?
Not one person in the thread has received a refund via steam, i can only assume myself and many other customers are now out of pocket, personally im just going to un install the game and grab it from elsewhere so i can avoid the DRM that uplay enforces.
Hello,
Thank you for contacting Steam Support.
As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.
Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information. http://www.steampowered.com/index.ph…iber_agree…
I understand why companies want to put DRM on products. At the moment I only play video games on my home PC, and have a stable internet connection, so the fact the game has to check the internet all the time I can't say will effect me. However if the game is good enough where I will want to also put it on my laptop so I can play when I travel it will prevent me from playing the game I have purchased when I want to play it. And I don't like them being able to control when I can / can't play.
I think companies shouldn't try to 100% prevent people from pirating games, but they should put some road blocks in the way so they can cut down on the number of people that do. That should be done with out harming people who actually purchase the game. One solution I think I would have found acceptable is for the game to check for an internet connection, if there is a connection then check to see if it is pirated, if there is no connection then periodically recheck for one. Like I said this won't stop pirating but it will cut down on it. I am also against that method, but I can at least find it more acceptable.
I agree though the real issue is the fact they lied about it. If they are willing to lie about this, then what else have they or will they lie about in the future? To my knowledge they don't include what information is going to be uploaded to them when it connect.( I haven't looked that hard so if someone has information on that please post it). For example what information are they going to use to identify to make sure the game isn't being pirated? Just check the connecting IP address against the CD key and if runs at to many places in to short a time then mark that license as pirated? Or is it going to collect information about the actual PC under the disguise that it is for DRM protection. In reality once that information is in a database some where they can use it for what ever they want. While I'm sure the information they will collect will most likely be harmless, you never know for sure as the upload stream I'm sure would be encrypted (and if it's not than that's even worse!) Then of course since they have an active connection can they put in some type of kill switch? Such as something that will tell the game no longer to run?
Of course I think that is jumping off the deep end with that theory and this company most likely is not going to do that. However the more we let companies have control over the software we purchase, the more likely we are to face something like that in the future.
I'm not for pirating games but do feel that there can be times when a company over steps the line the gaming community (at least the ones who feel the company has gone to far) should either not buy the game or pirate the game to demonstrate that they are against the actions of the DRM. As we all know that there will be people trying even harder to crack the DRM.
Obviously breaking the law is not the best method of protesting, but when you hurt a company in the bank it is normally the most effective means of protest. When you boycott the game the company doesn't know if they are getting low sales because no one likes it or because of their DRM. Since the person who suggested the idea of the DRM in my opinion doesn't know the community that well, they may think it is due to low sales. That is why I think pirating the game may be a better protest because if they see an decrease in sales and an increase in the number of pirated copies they may realize they need to re look at their actions.
Steams decision on offering refunds just reinforces how much I like steam and will continue to purchase my games from them in the future.
Also if you take a look at another game that came out with strict DRM, Spore, you will notice that it was released in September and was estimated to be the most pirated game that year. So it is obvious that strict DRM does not work when it upsets members of the community. Of course it would be bias if I didn't mention they may also have had the highest PC sales (after WOW) that year. So who knows what the percentage of people would have purchased vs pirated the game without the DRM protection. I also know there were many people who both purchased and pirated the game as the pirated was so easily available at the time and who wants to risk in a few years not being able to play the game?
Now this was my ramble above and I am sure there are going to people who disagree with this. However if you ignore all of the above, I would like you to think about the next point I am about to make. With this form of DRM how far does the ownership of the game you purchased really go? For example you can't play the game; if your internet connection goes out (which includes if you travel, if your internet goes out temporarily, or if you just don't have the money to pay it that month), if they are doing server maintenance, if there is a problem between your ISP and their company, or worst of all if they shutdown their server!
When thinking about this question try and keep your mind open and remember, not everyone is fortunate to have reliable broadband connections, there are many parts of the world that have unreliable connections and/or dial-up and keep in mind that it's not unrealistic that a the server can be shut down. if you don't believe me look up a game called Hell Gate London. I was one of the unfortunate people who bought this game only to later have the servers shutdown and no longer be able to play the game.
So yes in the case of Hell Gate London I guess I technically own the game, but can't play the game. Is it really that unreasonable to think it can happen to other games?
I vote with my wallet every time. I have several games pre-ordered right now, but just removed RAGE from that list due to it's always on DRM. I love id and Bethesda, but this will be the first game of theirs that I have not purchased and it is solely because of the DRM. Thankfully Skyrim will be using Steamworks as I would hate to miss out on that. I am really upset about RAGE too but this is the only way I can say, I don't like their DRM. DRM has only hurt legit customers, and never stops the pirates. No game is worth intrusive or always-on DRM.
Intrusive/always-on DRM; not even once.
A pirate I was meant to be!
Trim the DRM and crack the keys!
DRM? It never works. I played the shitty game tonight. No DRM, no pay, no anything. Glad I saved my money.
Thanks pirates.
EA and now Ubisoft are free for life for me.
Here is simple truth my friends:
THE ONLY PEOPLE DRM HURTS IS PEOPLE WHO BUY THE GAME.
People who stole the game from torrents have already finished it without any issues.
I think that Ubisoft's DRM in general is just ridiculous. Always have to be connected to the internet to play single-player games? It's not like when I play games on the go with my laptop I'm always connected to the internet. They say that it reduces piracy, but I mean, it doesn't mean that the game doesn't get pirated. Those who pirate the game can play offline…why are the people who buy the game legitimately treated like criminals?
ubisoft is just unfortunate and/or ignorant enough to have a really brutal form of DRM (that doesn't even work and is easy to bypass) that actually harms their playerbase rather than simply trying to protect themselves, so this is probably going to be one of the final nails in ubisoft's coffin.
anyway, rambling tangent time.
there are plenty of small studios that don't enforce DRM for one reason or another (mainly financial or just trying to be good to their playerbase) and they tend to get ripped off the hardest, in relation to their total income. those donation drives on Steam are the tip of the iceberg in how self-entitled and petty people can be.
there is no easy way to stall or fight piracy, and unfortunately it turned into an arms war where each side tries to outdo the other and 'innocents' are caught between.
it might be easier to understand 'draconian' policies if you see the companies as needing to pay their workers and finance future projects, rather than just raking in all the money as a singular faceless corporation because they need hookers and to do blow on top of dead gamers right this second. i have read about DRM, i just personally don't have a problem with the basic idea of it. there are problems with the way different companies enforce it, but it's a fairly recent thing in the grand scheme of things and they will always over-react in attempts to protect their property.
i think that people should definitely fight to have reasonable (and open rather than hidden/rootkits etc) forms of DRM, but not be aggravated by DRM in itself if it exists in a product. it seems odd to be angry at studios trying to protect their property/profits.
that being said, i'm generally on the fence because i try to believe that people who genuinely like a game/studio will pay for it and thus there isn't a need for such harsh restrictions, but i get the feeling those people are actually the minority.
Adobe is well aware that their products are constantly pirated but don't particularly do anything to stop it. instead, the prices remain extremely high since studios/companies have to have legal licenses for (non-private) use. can't really do that with games, though.
(i can understand the problem with ubisoft's specific method of DRM because they refuse to help people who have been locked out or have other problems related to their DRM)
in the end yes, studios/corporations are interested in profit, they are businesses (who have to pay their workers). all one can really ask for is that they 'care' enough for the consumer base to keep them coming back. if not, don't buy it. that does not suddenly give you the right to run out of the shopping mall with a bag of stolen goods because you didn't like the cut of their gib. it sort of just keeps aggravating the problem, like setting fire on something that's already on fire and getting mad at the firemen for trying to put it out using wet cottonballs.
We are truly humbled to have our very first wall-o-text comment on here.
Thank you.
I wonder if they will actually fix this or keep it as it is
Why can't Ubisoft see that they are investing a decent amount of money in implementing this DRM system… that gets cracked in a day. The trap maker always thinks he's found the impenetrable defense. Again, was that money well spent?
You piss off legitimate customers and get made a fool of by the pirates. You are losing on both ends. Good game or not, you can't piss off you customers.
DRM doesn't really effect piracy, even the content online-ness. Often within half-an-hour there will be a crack, and sharing site will be filled with it
Ubi was misleading its customers by misrepresenting the DRM. STEAM had no choice but to refund money.
If a multi-million dollar company can't think of a way to prevent piracy without punishing the people who actually PAY for the game, then they deserve to have it stolen. They deserve to lose money.
Many have exercised the process of cognitive dissonance, but i believe Fist's post above reveals the nature of this process most accurately.
Really? anyone who activates this game using the DRM shouldn't be able to get a refund. If you bump up against something that, through steam, requires an additional username and password to access and you can't figure out your now locking yourself into a game that requires online access to play, then lesson learned. Is this really a big enough deal that Ubisoft has to make this kind of apology. I never got a refund for Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, or any other game i've ever bought that didn't meet the half the criteria this game met for being a semi-decent game worth $15.
I was thiking about buying the game, but after finding out the DRM crap is back i changed my mind and simply aquired a pirate copy to see, if the game was gonna be good enough, to put up with the hassle and problems DRM allways cause…
1: its a poor port.
2: Mouse/keyboard controls are well…. i swapped to my 360 controller just to be able to play and kind a enjoy it.
3: DRM is just a pain.
4: once again Cracked copy worked 100% better than Offical . Good Job UniFail.
So will i buy it any time soon ? Nope, will i buy it when it drops £15 in price and DRM is removed and mouse/keyboard controls are fixed? sure.
Long story short, Ubisoft are just attacking the problem of pirates the wrong way, just like EA and ever so many more publishers. Offline games are suppose to be Offline Period! Im sure all those who paid for the game within 24hours will all be using the cracked version anyway just because it makes playing the game damn easyer.
Over 500 paid for games on my steam account.
I downloaded this game for free, instead of buying it, due to the DRM.
I bought the game at GMG and I hope they do Refunds, since this morining I tried to play the game for the second time and I m not all the time with an internet connection.
This Big Fat Lie Sucks!
What is a real shame, is that this actually a really GOOD game, but Ubisoft have ruined it (at least the PC copy) for people by being lazy in their port, and lying about the DRM.
I wish I had known you'd be able to get a refund, I would've bought it for the TF2 hat and taken my money back! 😛
Piracy is a byproduct of a free market and a free society. Ignore it. Give pirates a reason to buy the game and some of them will. As to the rest of your fan they will buy a good game anyway. I have boycotted games because of DRM's. Be warned.
They never learn… they just never learn. i had faith in ubisoft that they would honor their word. im sad that they treat Pirates better than customers…
Developers should take a look at CDP red, look at the respect they've earned.
If I don't feel a game is worth the money I won't buy it plain and simple, I wouldn't buy whether it was cracked or not. But! If if download it illegally and find that it's actually better than I expected then I might buy it or I might be more keen on buying an eventual sequel of said game.
So piracy should be left the fuck alone, I can bet you both my testicles that I own more games than people who are against piracy.
Just wanted to give a heads-up, Steam is not giving refunds on "ever sold copy of From Dust". They haven't stated such, and the thread on the forums linking to this article was deleted. And more than one person has stated Steam has refused them a refund. That isn't to say that NO ONE is getting a refund though, so still worth a try.
That said, fuck Ubisoft and their industry-crippling DRM – aka "Doesn't Really Matter" (for pirates).
At least those fucks at CuntiVisionBlizzard are upfront about their always-online faggotry re:Diablo3. This is worse.
I had to crack it(my own legal copy) because of this, Ubisoft is a disgrace.
Fuck DRM. Fuck Ubisoft. You're ruining PC Gaming.
Nuff said.
The DRM is completely pointless anyway. There is ALREADY a cracked version of From Dust available. All this DRM does is inconvenience us paying customers. And why would they lie about it like they did? If they planned to have always-on DRM, they should never have said otherwise. Disgraceful.
Unfortunately, I enjoy the game and so I am not interested in a refund. While the DRM is annoying (why do I need another account when bought the game through Steam?), it really isn't a great hassle for me.
It was cracked before the release, that why it does not seem like a DRM…
Isn't that the game laucher where you can see your points, game news and such? I don't believe its an DRM, this is only online features like on Diablo 3.
Looks like a neat game but I did not purchase b/c of Ubisoft's terrible reputation w/ DRM that punishes paying customers and drives up piracy rates. Looks like that was a great decision. Play it safe: just stop buying games from publishers like Ubisoft, Rockstar and EA until they figure out how to stop removing value from their IP.
Come on guys, the game industry can not survive on donation revenus… They can't give the game for free and hope that there is enough loyalty on this earth to make up for their investment.
Seriously, I know you all have internet since you all posted here. So whats the problem?
Apparently, you've just woke up and crawled out from a rock, or never payed any attention to anyone, because you would've never even asked that if you didn't.
This does not register as an argument…
Just a plain opinion…
If the company goes bust, chooses to no longer support the game, has a server error, changes the games DRM, or you have an internet issue you cannot play a game that you paid for. Meanwhile people who did not pay for it can… I'd say that's my problem, and why no one should support always on DRM.
If you had followed the news, DRM on games is ALWAYS temporary measure. You get your full game at that point…. if you reaaaalllly need to play old games in 20 years from now : you can.
First the game wasn't pushed back because of Ms nor was the port botched because of Ms.
Second ubi is delusional when they say this drm lowers piracy. It was cracked the first week it debuted in assassins creed. It does NOTHING. Well it does something….it hurts sales.
Thanks for the heads up! I was going to buy this game but with this news I will be hitting the torrents!
I bought From Dust on Steam after seeing that it was made by the same guy that made Another World/Out Of This World, and seeing Ubisoft's promise that the "always-online" DRM would not be included. I got a bit apprehensive when the PS3 and PC versions were pushed back a month due to Microsoft forcing the game to be a timed 360 exclusive, but I figured that was Microsoft being evil, not Ubisoft.
Then I found out that not only had Ubisoft lied about the DRM, they'd done a horrible job porting the game. It makes you wonder if the bad port wasn't the result of a business deal with MS rather than laziness on Ubisoft's part: make the non-360 versions of the game unplayable so people are forced to buy it on 360.
Personally, I'm at an impasse. I like From Dust, and don't want to give up my copy – but I don't want to support Ubisoft and their draconian DRM schemes that punish paying customers either. Supposedly, they're making an announcement later today about what they're doing with the DRM: if they completely remove it or make it a one-time activation as was promised on the Steam Store page, I'll keep the game. Otherwise, I'm asking for a refund.
I for one was exited about how awesome the game looked from the trailers. I saw that the game finally came out, and rushed to buy it. I got on and was amazed at the graphics, but then to my dismay I realized how poorly the controls were and that my ATI Radeon HD 6370 and i5 2.53 Ghz processor can only run 15 FPS on 1600×900 Resolution. I played for about an hour then just got sick of how the game handled. I would very much like to get a refund.
Thank you for listening, have a nice day.
– Re3st1mat3d
Re3st1mat3d sorry your pc sux and you will have to lie to get a refund i hope you are happy with your self
It's not the PC, the game is just ported so badly. Heck, there's even an artificial FPS limit of 30 frames per second. They made the game for a weaker system (Xbox) and didn't even bother to update the graphics for the PC version, even though the PC version had been delayed for over a week.
Though this is a very common problem with ports, after what Ubisoft did it's like adding insult to injury, which is not a nice thing for a company to do to its customers.
Falcon, Ubisoft have publicly stated they prefer to use DRM because it 'curbs' piracy. Of course, we don't get to see the numbers so who knows if that's true, either.
Anyone ever go as far to think that DRM is being used to prevent 2nd hand sales? I know EA has started an attack on resold games with their "Purchase an online pass" crap. DRM doesn't work, and companies know it. I think we have been looking at this all wrong lately, and we need to see what they are really applying DRM for.
I hate intrusive DRMs as much as the next guy but customers should also be responsible and NOT pirate a game to show their displeasure of the publisher/developer. It'll only make the matter worse instead making those corporate guys see sense. Tell them, ignore their games, don't support them, BUT don't pirate out of spite.
If you have something about the game, don't buy it. Simple as that.
The thing is… These corporate guys won't see the light. They only know how many copies are sold. They have no idea how many are re-sold. They have no idea how many copies are pirated. They have no idea how many copies are pirated and then later are bought. They have no idea how many times a pirate has ended up in a sale (example: I pirate the game, tell ten friends to get it, 5 do that wouldn't have before). Piracy isn't one of those black and white issues.
The point I'm trying to make is, regardless of how much stuff is pirated, the fucks up top won't see it any way, because they hope in vain that the DRM will somehow hold and people will end up buying more copies – but it usually doesn't work out that way.
Unfortunately, this is just another example of how DRM only hurts legitimate customers. Until big companies/publishers can understand this, it only frustrates customers and can at times push the same customers to pirate the game to get rid of the effects of DRM.
FUCK YOU DRM
lol most of these people will get a refund and just play the pirate version.
Or get a refund and never play this shitty mess ever again.
I will want a refund and not even bother downloading it online. If I had known it was going to be like Settlers (that I dumped after the issue) I would never have purchased it. UbiSoft will NEVER get a pre-purchase again…or any purchase for that matter. Not worth the hassel to deal with the issues with UbiSoft.
Sorry, -1 customer.
I just finished requesting a refund for this game. The first Ubisoft game I buy since Beyond Good & Evil on the PS2, and this is what happens. How is this company even still in business?
As Snail stated, anti-piracy measures have NEVER worked. Hell, From Dust has been cracked and available to play for the past three days now. And what do I get as a paying customer? Two hours of bull crap and then in the end still not being able to play my game. **** this company. If I ever want to play an Ubisoft game again, I'll just pirate it. It's easier than struggling through their DRM.
Well said, Snail
The real outrage is that they lied. If they wanted so badly to include their DRM, they should have been upfront about it. I would not have purchased the game if I knew, but I'm sure others would have.
As for DRM itself, I generally disapprove. I realize it's there to protect the company from financial loss, but let's be honest – no DRM has ever stopped pirates. All protected games are cracked within weeks, if not days or hours of their release. In the end, it only becomes an inconvenience for those who legitimately acquired the product.
I feel that companies would be wise to adopt a more open policy and accept the fact that their game WILL be pirated, and try to treat those who did purchase their product more kindly. Companies may find that loyalty and a mature attitude begets loyalty in return, which will secure them more legitimate sales and return customers than any DRM could hope to.
How about we just find all the pirates and hang them from their testicles/ovaries?
such a naive view that only fools can have.
I think the problem here isnt so much the DRM but Ubisoft lied about it. I really hope the game suffers in sales, but its the fact that publishers couldnt give much about us , all they care is our money. But all these systems like steam which is the only one I prepared to use are just more means to take away from us the ability to play outside their systems and make us almost like crack addicts and them the suppliers because you cant play unless you have their program.
Your a faggot
Shut the fuck up.
I am a person who pirates, but I've still bought over five hundred games over the last 6 years. Stop being a hapless moron.
@Peter Pan
You realise that DRM doesn't actually stop the pirates? and they are in-fact playing it right now?
Ouch?
Let's start with you.
how about we do that to ubisoft for being such uptight shitheads.
The stupid thing about this whole mess is that the pirates don't have to put up with the DRM. The only people who are adversely affected by all this new anti-piracy technology are the people who actually purchase the game.
Vote with your wallet and let the publishers know you're not going to put up with their crap anymore.
I pirated "From Dust" and after reading all of this I am proud to have done so.
How about we hang you from your testicles for your stupidity?
so you have never in your entire life pirated something? every game you have ever played was legitimate?
what about emulators? ever played on those? did you have the original game? if not, you are just as much a pirate as any other
how bought we hack any account you have
The game has already been cracked and released online. So much for their DRM working anyway. I'm not going to pirate or buy the game anyway since I'm not really into that genre, but still, less than 24hours to crack WITH DRM protection in place? Thats terrible.
Not really defending it, but the point of DRM isn't to keep pirates out, but to stymie them long enough for the publisher to make a return on its investment (the costs of developing, distributing, and marketing the game). Every day the DRM remains unbroken means more money that can be recovered through game sales.
It's a terrible system, but if it didn't work well enough for the publishers, they'd figure something else out. DRM systems aren't cheap.
Only problem with this was.. the crack was released yesterday. So… didn't really slow anyone down that long.
This might be the "official goal" but of course that's bullshit. People who pirate typically do not buy games; as a matter of fact it has been proven that piracy is not nearly as much of a monetary loss for the industry as they would like us to believe.
I dare say that a few days or even weeks of unbroken DRM does not in any obvious way effect their sales; Typically the inclusion of DRM however persuades many possible customers to not buy their products.
lol There was a crack out for this before steam even unlocked it , downloaded and now my to dust dosent need now internet connection 😀
Actually, HAWX 2 still isn't cracked. But I agree with your point nonetheless.
It's so shitty game that nobody wants to crack it.
I like how Volition is going about the whole pirate thing; "Let's make a game that's worth stealing, and then we'll worry about making sure they don't."
Agreed. DRM is not anything new, it's expected that publishers will release with DRM, so them hiding it really doesn't serve a good purpose. Did they think everyone would say, "Hey, that's ok, it has worse DRM than it did before, but it's not a problem?" Even the administrator of their forums thinks their customer base is a bit dumb, saying that "one time only activation" means "one time only per session" when obviously everyone else interpreted it to mean to activate just one.
Totally agree with this.
Normally whenever a game with DRM gets cracked the cracked version doesn't need the internet connection, but the legal copy does. Also why not take Mojangs' view on it and just put a notification in game saying it's not a legal copy. Even the GTA series is making game play different for legal and illegal copies, drunk all the time for illegal copies.
An alternative to DRM would be something along the lines of time cards that would go to the store that must be activated by the store before they can be used, so even if some one figures out the algorithm behind the code creation it won't matter because the code hasn't been activated so it won't work.
I just got an Email from Steam telling me that they would not be doing any refunds AT ALL for From Dust, whatever the reason.
Some times the games are cracked before thier release lol.
DRM does nothing but hinder paying customers.
CD Projekt RED has done this with the Witcher 2, and I love them all the more for it. I feel no moral quandary over the question of pirating a Ubisoft-published game because they feel that they have no moral obligation to not bend the customer repeatedly. However, I believe that CD Projekt RED is the last bastion for PC gaming and smart game-creation in general. I want them to succeed more than any other Developer/Publisher. Thus, I pay full price for all CD Projekt RED games.